CR 039: Allison Gunn on Her Terrifying Debut Novel, ‘Nowhere’
The author discusses her writing process, her Appalachian upbringing, and her love for all things creepy.
If Stephen King’s The Outsider and HBO’s Mare of Easttown had a book baby, it would be Nowhere, the debut novel from Allison Gunn. Eerie, claustrophobic, and chock-full of tension, Nowhere follows police chief Rachel Kennan as she navigates an unhappy marriage, the death of her son, and parenting her two daughters while simultaneously attempting to solve a series of grisly crimes that have occurred in her small Appalachian town. Soon, children in the tightknit, religious community begin to disappear into the woods, adults turn violent, and Rachel learns she must fight back against an ominous force or risk losing everything she holds dear.
Early reviews of the book have been positive, with Publishers Weekly calling Gunn “an assured new voice in horror.” And though the story itself is steeped in the supernatural, its themes are heavily influenced by Gunn’s own upbringing.
“I grew up a pastor’s kid” she says. “We moved all over the place, one small town to the next, primarily in Appalachia. So that inspired the setting of Nowhere and the dynamics between the various people who live in Dahlmouth, which is the fictional town featured in Nowhere, and the Kennan family. They are the proverbial outsiders, and that was something that I felt when I was growing up. We were under a microscope, just like the Kennan family is under a microscope, with Rachel being the police chief. But we were also different from the people who were around us, having just moved to these very, very small places. So that was definitely one factor, the stigma involved. That was also a product of growing up as a pastor’s kid and being queer. We were in a denomination that was fundamentalist, so being gay in any sense contributed to this constant feeling of being an outsider within a community that you’re supposed to be a pillar of. Additionally, it came from some toxic relationships, which is evident with Rachel and [her husband] Finn. And then, of course, being born in Appalachia, growing up in Appalachia, and then returning to Appalachia as an adult—that was perfect as the setting for the story.”
Over a recent Zoom call, Gunn spoke with me about her love for Appalachian folklore, her advice to aspiring authors, and how she uses tarot cards to develop her novels.
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SANDRA EBEJER: Nowhere draws heavily from Appalachian folklore. Can you talk a bit about how you came to study folklore and how it influenced the novel?
ALLISON GUNN: The very first thing that piqued my interest when it comes to folkloric tales would have been the Lost Colony of Roanoke—Roanoke Island, not to be confused with the Roanoke [Virginia] that’s featured in the book. A lot of people have associated the two as being the same, but they’re not. In any case, that definitely was an influence. I got interested in folklore as we currently accept it as part of my undergraduate studies. I was studying Jewish history, specifically Jewish history within Europe, and looking at Germanic folklore. Jews played a very large role in that, oftentimes a negative role. You can see that in Grimms’ Fairy Tales. If you look at the unsanitized version of Grimms’ Fairy Tales, a lot of them are antisemitic or have antisemitic components. I started working with a professor who loved German folklore; she helped me dig into and analyze and look further beyond just what was on the page.
Then, of course, being born in Appalachia, partially growing up in Appalachia, returning to Appalachia—spooky things are my bread and butter and no matter where I go, I'm going to dig into the local lore. I started digging into Appalachian folklore. One thing I integrated into this particular story is a modern tale, and that would be the legend of the black-eyed children. There’s a book by Joshua Cutchin and Timothy Renner. They put out two volumes of folklore, a lot of it being set in Appalachia, but they ended up tying fae or faerie folklore with aliens and cryptids in Appalachia, with the legend of the black-eyed kids, and tracking how those are connected and how it’s evolved over time. I had just read that book as I was beginning to go through the next edit of Nowhere. That book definitely influenced me, as well.
There are so many themes in Nowhere—motherhood, marriage, sexuality, identity, community, religion, grief, addiction, secrets. You did a great job balancing it all. Was that a challenge? Was it difficult to keep the book from getting too bogged down in themes or messages?
I can see where it would feel that way when a reader is looking at it. But honestly, writing it, it just flowed. I am not what you would consider a plotter. A lot of writers make that distinction between being a plotter and a pantser. I’m somewhere in between the two, as I think most people actually are. So I didn’t at any point sit down and say, “I’m going to write a book about motherhood and queerness.” It just came naturally, and I think that’s the reason why it doesn’t feel so heavy and in your face when you’re reading the story. That said, I have to give credit to my agent and my editor and critique partners, because there were times when they were reading it and they’d point to something and go, “Can you elaborate on that a little bit more? I love that theme.” And that would be the first time I had ever thought about it as an actual theme of the book. So with that lens that they were approaching it, and now with readers talking about it, I’m better able to evaluate those messages within the text. But, like I said, a lot of times I just sit down and start writing. There’s not really an agenda behind what I’m putting on the page.
Some authors I’ve interviewed say they start off with a specific character or they have a hook in mind. What did you start with? What was the first kernel of the idea for Nowhere?
I would say 99% of the time when I’m writing, it will usually start with some sort of scene or dialogue between two characters. In this instance, the first scene that I can remember coming into fruition was Finn and Rachel in the woods as they’re looking for their two daughters. And that comes almost at the end of the book. That was the very first one that came into my head. That said, that’s not where I started writing the book. I knew it was a beat that I had to hit, but I started all the way at the beginning and wrote straight through, rather than hopping around to the scenes that came into my mind first.
I read an interview where you shared that you landed an agent through Twitter. Social media can be tricky for authors, but it’s such a huge part of the work. Can you talk about the pros and cons of social media, in your experience?
I loathe social media. It’s a ball and chain, and yet, I can’t deny that it is an incredible way to connect with readers. It’s also necessary. Aspiring authors, or those who are looking to break into the industry, often don’t like that response, because it does require taking time away from when you would otherwise be writing, and it can be a distraction in the writing process. I have to structure my schedule with specific times to address social media and then disconnect. That’s a little harder right now as Nowhere’s publication date is coming up. Right now, I’m having to pay far closer attention to social media than I used to.
But, yeah, I found my agent, Logan Harper, on Twitter. It was through one of the pitch events that used to take place. Twitter isn’t quite the same these days, as many people know, but back in the day, there used to be quite a few different pitch events. Not only was that an opportunity for writers to connect and network, but it was also a chance to connect with agents. And that’s how Logan first got her hands on Nowhere. Initially, she passed on that manuscript, which is really important for people who are trying to get into traditional publishing to know. Sometimes an agent can pass on one manuscript, and it still stays in their head. They’re trying to figure out, “How would I pitch this?” It’s not that they didn’t like your book. Sometimes they’re just being very upfront and honest with you that they don’t want to take you on as a client and let you down. People don’t know about that enough. They oftentimes will take rejection as just straight rejection. Sometimes the agent’s actually looking out for you. She extended to me an invitation to send any manuscript in the future to her, so I waited about a month, and I sent her another one that I had been working on. And she came back after reading that one and said, “I’ve met some folks recently that I think would love Nowhere. Can we go back to that one?” And she was right. We sold it very quickly. It was, I believe, two weeks before we sold it to Atria.
That’s amazing! Nowhere is rightfully getting comparisons to Stephen King’s The Outsider. What were some other books or works that inspired it?
Well, Stephen King is number one. The Shining is actually the book that made me want to be a writer, and lives in my consciousness all the time. In fact, The Shining book as well as The Shining movie by Kubrick have fused in my brain and live there forever and perpetually inspire my works. With Nowhere, Gillian Flynn’s Sharp Objects was one of the books that I was most influenced by. I was obsessed with Sharp Objects. Flynn writes very complicated, ugly characters that still have such heart and redemptive qualities that it’s almost uncomfortable because you never know whether or not to like the person. Are you rooting for them? Are you hoping that something horrible happens and takes them out? She was a major influence. I also am absolutely obsessed with Josh Malerman’s works. The book that cannot leave my brain right now is Incidents Around the House, which was a book I read in 48 hours. When I finished the last page, closed the book, I thought to myself, “I hope that one day I will be able to write something as incredible as this, but I don’t know that that will ever be possible.” It completely blew me away. There’s an entire army of things that constantly inspire my work. Going back to the folklore aspect, there is a folkloric researcher and lecturer named John E.L. Tenney who frequently brings things to my attention that I’m inspired by. There are things from that paranormal, folkloric world that constantly influence my work. It’s just coming from all kinds of different places.
In addition to being an author, you’re a tarot card reader. How long have you been doing that? How did it come about?
When I was 18, I picked up my first tarot deck. Growing up a fundamentalist pastor’s kid, tarot was a big no-no, but I was always a weirdo, and I still am. I’m proudly weird, and tarot was always something that I was quietly interested in. As soon as I was out of the house, it was like, “I’m gonna get my first deck. I’m gonna start playing with this.” I think what fascinates me is not necessarily what people would consider the woo-woo of it all, like this very spiritual aspect to it. I’m fascinated by the psychology behind tarot. Carl Jung, the psychologist, did a lot of work having to do with archetypes and the psychology behind archetypes, and specifically ended up applying that to tarot. Once I found that out, and I started reading all of his work on the matter, it became an obsession of mine. On top of that, there’s the artwork involved that I admire the hell out of. It’s fascinating to me to see how different people interpret the meanings of these cards visually. So, yeah, it’s something I enjoy doing for other people, but I always caution them when I’m doing readings that I’m not coming at this from the approach that I have some connection to the divine. I’m not claiming to be omniscient and have this relationship with the universe that no one else can attain.
I read an old blog post of yours in which you talked about utilizing different decks based on the project. Can you share how you decide which deck to use? How do they influence the work? And what did you use for Nowhere?
So, this will sound woo-woo, right after I say, “I don’t read tarot in a supernatural way.” It’s honestly just dependent on how it feels. When I start to write a manuscript, a lot of times, if I have the tarot deck already—I have probably at least 50 at this point—then I naturally gravitate to it. If I’m out and about and I see a deck that I’m gravitating to in relation to a specific manuscript, then I pick that one up. It’s not something that I intentionally sit and think about. It’s just sort of how it feels. Some people would call that energy. Some people would say it’s a psychological process in the back of my mind in terms of what inspires me with that particular manuscript. But it’s not a science in the least. It’s not something that I consciously choose at the time.
In terms of how I use it in the writing process, there are numerous spreads that I’ve come up with to flesh out characters. Also, if I get stuck in a spot, it can be very helpful [with] character, motivation, the arc of a particular storyline. Sometimes, if I’m really struggling with a manuscript, I will map all of that stuff out and journal it. I keep several files on my computer with the photos of these various spreads to click back to whenever I need another little bolt of inspiration. But yeah, a lot of times it’s actually coming up with tarot spreads that will help illuminate areas that I may not be thinking of. I found that particularly helpful with character development, because so much of the time, as writers, we don’t realize that there are holes that we need to fill in for our characters, things that we don’t even think about in terms of what’s feeding into the motivation. Tarot has been incredibly helpful to fill in those gaps for me, especially in areas that I didn’t realize needed to be fleshed out.
In terms of what I used for Nowhere with tarot decks, [I used] the Rackham deck. It’s based on the work of a painter, [Arthur] Rackham. These are so otherworldly to me. They pulled me in when it came to Nowhere. It felt like you were in an alternate universe. It was haunting and beautiful and somewhat Gothic as well. It just felt so right for the story. The atmosphere was absolutely perfect for what I was envisioning.
I know Nowhere is just now being shared with readers, but have you started working on the next project?
Yes, it’s one of many, many novels that’s in the virtual drawer. I don’t want to give too much away about what I’m currently working on, but it is also set in Appalachia, halfway. The action portions of the novel are halfway set in Appalachia. The other is an area that no one would think of connected to Appalachia. It’s about the reverse kind of world. In fact, the entire manuscript is basically about mirror worlds, but that there’s overlap, and then also the identities of others that we never see. It is another book that’s very much a hybrid of thriller and horror at the same time. But it’s a wild, wild ride, and it’s very, in my opinion, atraditional with a lot of mixed media included in it, so we’ll see how that goes and how readers end up interpreting it when it eventually comes out. But publishing is so unpredictable that it could be one of the other manuscripts that’s in my virtual drawer that ends up making it into the light sooner than the one I’m currently working on. I’m always working on something.
What advice would you have for writers who want to write a novel but are overwhelmed by the process?
Just start writing. The best advice I have ever heard about writing actually came from a screenwriter, James Gunn, which is, “if you want to write, sit down and write.” It can be absolute garbage. It can be trash but just get it going. Forget that anybody is going to read this and just go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And make sure you finish that draft, because even if it sucks, you can come back to it later. You can build upon it. You can edit it. It’s never a static thing. I mean, Nowhere was changing right up until the point where the advanced reader copies ended up getting printed. It was more and more minor as time went on, but nevertheless, it’s a fluid document until it goes to print. So people who feel really overwhelmed by the process, it doesn’t have to be perfect. Getting it going is the hardest part. You don’t have to have it all figured out. Do it for you. Write that first draft for you and forget about everyone else in the world. That’s the thing about writing—it’s a beautiful escape.
To learn more about Allison Gunn, visit her website.
To purchase Nowhere, click here.
This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
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